Neal: Hi, everybody. This is Neal from Growlies. I'm here with Angela Ardolino from CBD Dog Health.

We're here to about CBD to try and answer all of your questions to give you some context of the history around CBD and Cannabis used in medicine and just discuss what we see as the road going forward and safe ways that you could take advantage of this phenomenal product that's becoming available to us. Now, it's still on the road to availability. Angela, thank you for joining us today. Thank you very much.

Angela Ardolino: You bet. I'm happy to be here finally with you.

Neal: I have to admit, I guess I work well under pressure. I've waited until the end to get everybody in even though I've been working on this for months and months and months. I'm just thrilled to bits that we were able to make this happen. Thank you.

Angela: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Neal: Let's start with some of the histories. I titled this talk Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt Myth and Magic the CBD because ultimately we have to deal with all of those things when talking about CBD to the people we serve primarily the pet community. In regards to fear, uncertainty, and doubt, we've had I’d say 70 or 80 years of fear, uncertainty, and doubt spread about this plant and the products that we can extract from that plant. Can you fill us in on some of that history anything that you think is relevant?

Angela: I always like to tell people to be aware that the reason that this unbelievable fast-growing medicinal plant is illegal is because it takes care of so many issues in any mammal. Anybody with a spinal cord, it can help. That's a huge threat to the pharmaceutical industry.

When instead the pharmaceutical company can give you 15 different prescriptions. One prescription helps one thing and then the second prescription helps the side effects of the first prescription. It's just a lovely wonderful way to keep you sick and keep them rich. I've been in the cannabis industry since 2015. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis which is an autoimmune disease. I was prescribed Humera which has been linked to lymphoma, every kind of problem you can possibly imagine.

Not only that, I have rheumatoid arthritis which is an autoimmune disease, but it's completely different than let's say Crohn's disease but we both get the same medication. Anyway, that wasn't even an option. I try to live a natural lifestyle. I'm a vegetarian. I do all these things. The idea of taking a prescription drug that could harm me just so that I didn't feel pain was not an option. Of course, I started down the road of finding something more natural and that's when I found cannabis medicine. I tried it. Not only did my aches and pains and joint pain go away but my stress and anxiety levels went down. It was a life-changer.

Neal: Nice.

Angela: It changed my life so much that I sold my business and I threw myself into the cannabis industry because I was like, "This is the miracle to me of what was happening to me." I'm in LA right now. I'm calling you from my hotel room. I started my journey in California because of course, they've been using it medicinally for over 25 years in California and they've been the longest to have it recreational and most open it. It's also the wild wild west.

Neal: It really is.

Angela: I got to learn a good five years ago how crazy this industry is on the human side of things and how hard I worked and we worked to educate human beings on the benefits. The business I sold was a parenting resource. I did a lot of stories about kids that were having seizures. We fought hard with canna moms to get it passed. I watched a child, a seven-year-old go on a full seizure and the mom calmly take outa ting shirt, suck it up and put it under a child's lip. The child went from full seizure to having a conversation with me.

Neal: Wow.

Angela: I just cried. I thought, how it is inhumane to keep this medicine from us. That just lit my fire.

I didn't even know about what it could do for our animals yet. I already had a grooming and boarding business. I've had a rescue farm for 12 years. I didn't even know that I was going to be able to help all my animals also. After I did that, I was in the industry. I worked with one of the best consultants. I learned how to grow it. I wanted to find out what was I going to do in this industry. Put myself through--University of Vermont had a program in the school of medicine for medical cannabis therapeutic use and biology. I was the inaugural class. That's when I learned that animals had the same system as us and could benefit from the medicine. That was my--

Neal: Awesome. Now, let's unpack that just a little bit. The system that you're talking about is the endocannabinoid system. Is that correct?

Angela: Yes. The Endocannabinoid.

Neal: That system is similar to the same system that we have in our body that deals with opioids and the pain relievers that those offers. Am I wrong in that?

Angela: They're two separate systems.

Neal: They're different systems that do a similar job.

Angela: Absolutely.

Neal: Using different chemicals.

Angela: Using different chemicals. Unfortunately, most of the systems that the opioids affect are the ones that stop our breathing, stop our heart. In the endocannabinoid system, that's impossible. That's why it's impossible for you to overdose.

Neal: That's why we say it's a low-risk alternative?

Angela: Absolutely low risk. First of all, there's been nothing recorded in the history of time of any mammal dying of cannabis use. As a matter of fact, in the 1970s, they did a research study to see how much THC it would take to kill a person. What's interesting and what people forget, a lot of people say to me, "There's not enough research for pets. I don't know if it's safe for my pets." People need to remember that when we do research on human beings, they use animals. This study used rats, beagles, and chimpanzees. They gave them so much THC.

Neal: Those poor animals.

Angela: I think they had two rats die from aspiration, throwing up, choking or something like that. No beagles died. No chimpanzees died. The chimpanzees actually started to metabolize it in their liver and bring themselves back to normal to where it didn't even affect them anymore.

Neal: Nice. Nice.

Angela: No one died. They tried to kill the animals and they couldn't do it. I love to bring those types of things up. I also like to bring up that the United Stated government has owned-- Well, I think they don't own it anymore, Since 1992, I believe owned a patent on medical cannabis as a neuroprotectant and antioxidant.

Neal: Nice. That's the power of lobby where you have the industries like the alcohol industry or the drug industry or even who knows. The religious leaders, they lobby government. We've had these products that ultimately have been known throughout human history for thousands of years. We have records going back well beyond modern recorded history. 2,000 or going back. I felt even more.

Angela: Israel is the leader of the world. They have done every research. Everything's already been proven. It's funny to now get over to the pet industry and everybody go, "Wait. You have to prove it. You have to prove it." I'm like, "It's been done already." It's all done. We have the same exact system. There's this amazing plant that produces these compounds that interact with our system and fill the holes and make us better. It helps us bring homeostasis to our bodies so that when we become even, our body then can heal itself. That's the idea.

I can't say, "Have we healed a lot of dogs off cancer?" I have. I'm not allowed to say that, but I have.

I have been using the medicine for five years. I've got rid of cancer, tumors, seizures. Where I live, when the vet has done everything they can and the owner is not willing to give up, they call me.

They call the crazy witch lady who deals with the plants and the potions and we bring the dogs back to life. I mean, I look for a challenge now. Right now, we're working with a dog that's paralyzed that's starting to kick its back legs on a full spectrum product. Those are the types of things. They're not going to be able to shut us up because we're going to keep on putting the pictures out. We're going to keep on doing interviews like this. As you know, I'm on a tour of the West Coast because I thought this would be the last place I started. Oh my gosh, they are so confused out here that I'm really glad we're here to set it straight.

Now, we've got products that are coming out, that are broad-spectrum or isolates. Do they have an effect? Can they calm a dog? Absolutely. Do they get rid of disease? No, they don't have. They have to be a full spectrum product to make those types of differences.

Neal: Let's talk about that. When we talk about full-spectrum product for dogs and cats, we're pretty much always talking about hemp-derived products, not cannabis-derived products, so a little bit both cannabis. I guess let's talk about sativa and indica, and hemp. Maybe that would be more appropriate, I'm not sure where you lay in that language.

Angela: You bet. Everything is a cannabis plant. Marijuana, sativa, indica, hemp are all the cannabis plant. Then if a plant so as we already discussed, marijuana is a slang, a slur, actually a racial term, racial slur.

Neal: Yes, it is. Yes.

Angela: Hemp has been named in the United States as having less than 0.3% THC. Between those two, when you get closer to THC, then it is marijuana, and you have less CBD. The more CBD you have and less THC you have, you're hemp, but they are all the cannabis plant, and all between that range has an effect. If you're a human being with major cancer, you're going to want to be way over here. If you're a dog with cancer, you're going to want to be over here.

The reason is, is because dogs-- Of course we don't know how many, but we think twice to ten times have twice to ten times more the receptors that humans beings do, so that means they need a lot less medicine to work. I just had a 14-year-old lab that we adopted, with a giant NCT on her back. Hard, disgusting, not moving. They were going to put her down if I didn't take her. She's running around like a puppy, purely on medical cannabis. In two months, the tumor died, exploded, oozed, and it's completely gone. I can't even find where it use to be.

Neal: Is that using it topically, internally, or both?

Angela: Both. The other wonderful thing about dogs is dogs have about three layers of skin, and each layer of skin has both the receptors in it. We have CB1 receptors which are mostly in our brains, spinal cord, and then CB2 which are all over our bodies and our organs. Dogs have both the receptors in each layer of skin. When you're putting it in, remember, skin is our biggest organ.

Neal: Yes.

Angela: Putting it right on it, it's being absorbed and working right on it. Usually, what you'll see is-- I mean it's crazy. People flip out. People send me pictures and I can't believe. We have a story about a dog named Olivia. Two weeks, her tumor fell off that she had had for 13 years I think or some crazy thing like that. My biggest one is two months that this tumor exploded. It was disgusting. I can watch it die. You watch it die in front of you. Lipomas. I can't remember if I'm saying that right. Look like someone actually burned them when they start to die. You can see the death in front of your face. We never get to see these things because the vet just chops it off and we don't see it, and then a lot of times, it just grows right back.

Neal: Especially with... Yes.

Angela: Yes. We are killing it. It's not coming back.

Neal: Do you believe that's because of the anti-inflammatory effects of the CBD?

Angela: It's because cannabis kills cancer. It kills tumors. It basically surrounds it, stops it, and then suffocates it, so that it can't spread.

Neal: We could use it in our tool chest around, similar to like a ketogenic diet.

Angela: Absolutely.

Neal: What's the word I'm looking for? The CBD, and then work with our oncologists to make sure that they're getting the treatments. It's certainly one in the tool chest for us in our little store that's probably a little beyond our capability. We would generally be looking for pain relief, anxiety relief for anti-inflammatory effects, which are the things we see the most.

Angela: Right, but remember that even if they are doing whatever treatment they're doing with their conventional vet, the addition of a full-spectrum product is going to help whatever that is. They're going to say drug called Marinol that is for cancer patients that is THC. That helps them with the pain, helps them with their appetite, helps them with their mood. These are things that go well, so you don't have to go, "Hey, take this. I'm going to heal your cancer."

No, it's just going to help the dog break the homeostasis so that you can then get them on the right diet. Get his gut biome in the right place. Figure out why did he get the cancer in the first place, and that's all that CBD is going to do. It's going to get rid of the pain. It's going to get rid of tumors. It's going to help your body help it heal itself while we figure out what the heck happened and make sure it never happens again.

Neal: Yes. Dr. Marty Goldstein was all about, "Get out of the way and let the dog heal itself."

Angela: Absolutely.

Neal: Yes. The homeostasis and integrative medicine approach seems to be the way of the future, ultimately that consumers are looking for.

Angela: Right. Your shop is-- I don't know. Here in the United States, it's very difficult to find shops like ours where you can walk in and get these products that will support all that. Whether it's a pre or probiotic from Adored Beast or whether it's a ketogenic diet. I don't know who or what brands you have out there, or raw-fed or changing their diet, making sure-

Neal: Yes. 21 brands of raw in our store right now.

Angela: That's awesome. There is plenty of choice, and you're taking charge of your pet's health. It's just like ours, is a place where you can come in and get those products that you're not going to find in a big retailer because we don't bother with them. [laughs]

Neal: Marinol, you brought up that one. That was created in an atmosphere of a black market where they weren't allowed to use the actual plants, so they created a synthetic form of the chemicals that the plant is making. The problems with Marinol is it's too specific. It doesn't have the entourage effects. When we talk about CBD, it's a bad name for a product than many more things than just CBD. As I understand it, because of how illegal the plant base substances were, we don't really have enough science to name all of those cannabinoids. There's hundreds of them.

Angela: Yes. We just discovered another one. Now, there's a hundred and fourteen that we have discovered. Then I believe Dr Gary Richter, which we're a big fan of his, said that they have discovered these compounds that are doing things that they don't even know what they are yet. There's fats and acids, and so many different compounds. Terpenes, flavonoids, all of those. That's what full-spectrum is, is that we extract from the flower. We're taking all of those essential oils that live in the flower. If you zoom in on the flower, you can see the little oils on the tips. Taking all those essential oils and keeping them intact and together, because together, they work wonderful. If you're just taking CBD by itself, it's a waste of time, money, if you're trying to solve any issue.

Neal: That's these isolates, right?

Angela: That's an isolate. You brought up Marinol. I don't even know how to say it. You have to remember, that's a pharmaceutical industry trying to get ahead. The pharmaceutical industry is working very hard right now to be ready, but the moment that it becomes federally legal here in the United States, they're all ready.

Neal: [chuckles] For sure.

Angela: For instance, before I even launched my product because I was waiting for the Farm Bill to pass, I got an offer from a giant corporation that is buying brands to hold on to them so that the moment, that they, it becomes legal, they can go, "Here's a full brand and they didn't have a pet one yet.” They thought I was a great choice. That's how what's happening in the future, and what's happening and what they're working towards. The drugs that are out right now are either isolates or synthetics. Most of the time, they're synthetic and that's how they're getting around it. CBD is actually considered medicine because we have Epidiolex whose called CBD. That's why we're not allowed to say CBD, because if we are, then we're making a medical claim.

Neal: That's why it's called a full-spectrum hemp extract.

Angela: We don't know what the hell to call it.

Neal: [laughs]

Angela: Which makes it so confusing. Epidiolex even try to patent or trademark CBD. They did. Tried everything to just get it. There's the big people out there that are already moving and shaking and we just found out one of our big competitors has been already bought up by Mars Pets, I could tell the when things changed I was like, "Whoa commercial, commercial something's happened something's changed," and you can tell because they've they're feeding into or they're trying to define things trying to say this is what it is.

Neal: Just to let people know I'd like to just poke my-- in there Mars for people who don't know are the largest pet food manufacturer in the world and they also make Mars bar.

Angela: They probably don’t make a single product that is beneficial for humans or animals. I mean they are probably all--

Neal: They own a hundred brands. You can't not purchase from them and much like Nestle who again I think is number two and [crosstalk]. We're talking about Purina, Science Diet, and Royal Canin, those are the largest pet food companies in the world and they're getting into this space because they see a financial opportunity they see a shareholder benefit value. Ultimately-- so I personally I take CBD, in Canada we had legalization, but it was for flowers for recreational use of flowers of smokeable cannabis first. Edibles are becoming available this year it's a regulation nightmare, the Health Canada is super slow on approving things. but because you're hemp-based, are you allowed to be across the US because hemp is legal in the US now, right?

Angela: Yes, we waited to launch our product in 2018 when the Farm Bill we knew was going to go be reintroduced put into login. So we launched in 2018, but I started in 2015 and launched secretly in 2016 waiting for it to happen so that I could do another. Others like for instance other people move to like we're in Florida so my big competitor I just talked about when it didn't pass in Florida they moved to Colorado. I stayed in Florida and fought the fight until we got it, made into law but that's fine, they make a wonderful product and I'm glad they did it and they really did a lot of the footwork that needed to be done in the pet industry, but it's just a matter we've been approached by Walmart, CVS I take care of senior vice president's dog and educated him and they've been calling and asking and they're all waiting.

This is what we're about. We're about educating we're about helping the boutique stores who've been doing it and helping pet parents from the very beginning letting people understand that they can take charge of their pet's health just like we could take charge of our health and remember that our vets and our doctors aren't taught about nutrition and diet and that is the basis of everything, our microbiome in our gut is what controls our everything, our entire immune system

Neal: Our immune response to the foundation or our immune response is the life in our gut our whole bio. I think that you touch on a couple things. one is, that we have a medical system that has no care for a nutrition and nutrition system that doesn't really care for medicine and because of that it's certainly well that's true in humans and we can see that through the fast food. I'd like to say chronic illness is more expensive than fresh foods and so since we're fresh food purveyor certainly I have my take on that, but let's get down at the meat of the matter and how do people use these products and so-- oh did I lose you [silence] I've lost you, what happened now. This was a good start it looks like I'll have to edit this video. I haven't done a lot of editing before so this will be fun let's see if Angela comes back.

To reiterate what we've been talking about, we've been talking about CBD and some of the history around it and some Angela's history and hopefully, we're going to get into how to use the product next. Hope she’s able to rejoin in just a second here. I wonder if it was a power outage or something I'll check my email.

Neal: Aha you're back.

Angela: My computer died.

Neal: I figured. I figured there was a power outage it was too quick otherwise.

Angela: I was like, “Oh my gosh." So sorry about that.

Neal: It's okay, it's the only video I'll have to edit so I've done pretty good.

Angela: Oh good.

Neal: You know what? It's going to be me going, “Uh.” and then looking for my email and emailing Hernando saying, “Uh,” it's all good. Where were we? We were just getting into the meat of the matter and how the heck to use these products. I think that and you know what? I might just leave this in by the way and so because why not? We're all human we make mistakes.

Angela: Shit happens.

Neal: Exactly and we had a sound problem during Dr. Marty Goldstein's interview and we left that in because you know what? That's the realities of life and it corrected itself he was able to get another and so rock and roll. So where were we? We were just about to talk about how the heck to use these products so as I said earlier the majority of people who come into my store are looking for assistance with inflammation joint problems pain of an older animal usually my girls are almost 11-years-old they're 10-and-a-half-years-old, veterinarians think they're six or seven. They have none of the degenerative disease of-- and they're rescues so they didn't have a healthy early life, but now because--

Angela: We were just discussing that because or thinking about dogs that are rescues who are probably neglected and neglected probably means they didn't get vaccinations which means they're probably pretty good.

Neal: In Canada when you rescue them they've had all those vaccinations and stuff [crosstalk]

Angela: What I'm saying is that if you got your dog after a year or two years, for instance, I have a friend who just adopted a dog and before it was eight-weeks-old it got all of the vaccinations. Fixed flea and tick everything and it's already having seizures and it's not even able to move.

Neal: Putting pesticides on a dog has never made sense those pesticides were made for crops and even then they were considered unsafe so for you to put them on your dog and allow them into your household is a crazy, crazy, crazy thing to me it makes no sense to me just use a flea collar people, good God it's not hard. Then a little diatomaceous earth in the bed you rock and roll and then--

I get these people who come in-- The way I use it is my girl she's still 10-and-a-half and so she over exercises she's part terrier and she has no idea that she's 10-and-a-half and so we go to the park and she over exercises and the next morning she's creaky and sore and I give her some CBD I just put it in her mouth because it works faster than when I put it in her food and within an hour she's like, “Hey I feel good again let's go for another walk." I don't let her she clearly needs rest, but it really helps for recovery time.

Angela: Absolutely does. You mentioned something about putting it in their mouth instead of their food so not only is that much more cost-effective than putting it on their food, but you're getting it right into their bloodstream so when you're putting it in their mouth and especially on their gums even if you can rub it on their gums, I know some dogs are like, "Get away from me," but if you can get right in there then it's going right into the bloodstream [crosstalk]

Neal: Not on the tongue, but under the tongue and in the gums..

Angela: Right. For human use, it's under the tongue because we could squirt it right under our tongue and keep it there. We want to get it on the dog's gum as much as possible. As much in the mouth as possible. Even if you're doing it and they wiggle and it gets all in there, that's good. Then you can take it, anything you get on your hands and rub it in their inner ear like Dr. Goldstein has, we're also nano-emulsified so it absorbs really quickly also into the ear, but on those gums are the best. If you're dealing with a really sick dog, you can even do up the butt because that will get absorbed super-quick.

Neal: Colon's efficient at absorbing it?

Angela: Yes and you're bypassing the liver and the digestive system and all of that and it's going right into the bloodstream, right through the blood-brain barrier and working and making a difference instead of it being swallowed and you're losing, most products, 80% of the product. You see a little bit of a difference of a product that they swallowed, you're going to see a major difference if you can get it right into the bloodstream.

Neal: Awesome. I've also found that it takes a little more if I add it to food and it takes longer.

Angela: Absolutely, they have to digest it.

Neal: It's coming along with other things, that may push it through the system faster than-- I have people coming in swearing it's not an anti-inflammatory and I've other people coming in swearing it is an anti-inflammatory, what's the truth?

Angela: Absolutely, an anti-inflammatory. Most diseases are caused by an inflammation of something so that's why it's such a miracle, is that you take it and it gets rid of all your inflammation which is why you get pain. When inflammation goes away, pain goes away and then you can heal. Even before someone were to do physical therapy on an injured dog or training even, anything with a dog, just using it like you just said, muscle recovery. People who work out take it afterwards. Hernando is a Broadway actor, he takes it after he's been on stage dancing all night. His dog is back in the hotel room or back on her calm, keep her calm because she hates being separated from him. Everybody can benefit from it, from one thing or another.

If someone is using a product and they're not seeing a difference then that product is probably not a full-spectrum product. It may take more because of how it's manufactured. Every product is not created equal and not only that, but even if they're a full-spectrum product even those aren't created equal because you could be extracted from a flower or from the other parts of the plant or you cannot be emulsified or nano-emulsified or even micro-emulsified which just means that they break it down so small that more of it gets into your bloodstream faster. We're working on water-soluble, full-spectrum products right now. We're made up of water so it will be absorbed. It could literally just be full-spectrum and purified water, of course.

Neal: Normally, it's a carrier oil that it's added to. It's just MCT or coconut oil or an olive oil or a sunflower oil or some kind of fat. It's always coming along with a fat, which leads me to ask what about pancreatitis. Pancreatitis, an inflammation issue with the pancreas but it's also having a lipase problem. It's not digesting fats well and because of that does it work or do we inhibit it, until the pancreatitis is through?

Angela: No, you're going through the bloodstream, you're not going over there, you're bypassing it. We're doing the work inside the system, to balance the system and get it right. Absolutely, it's funny, we get hundreds of questions a day between Facebook and email and whatever. Literally, we could be told any disease, whether I know it or not, I'm not a vet and we can go look it up. If it's based on the inflammation of the pancreas or the inflammation of the kidneys or the liver, it's going to help it because it's going to get rid of that inflammation.

Neal: The majority of our diseases, that we consider the major killers of mankind and dogs because we die of the same diseases now, from diabetes to cancer. Dogs die of cancer more than every other mammal on the planet, that's completely related to the industrial food movement, since post-World War II. You can't argue that with me by the way, That's a fact.

Angela: Me neither.

Neal: I say that matter of factly because it's a fact. I started ranting, that's terrible.

Angela: Don’t you start because then I'm going to start.


Neal: That's so funny. Actually, what's killing us all is inflammation. Heart disease is inflammation. All the brain diseases are mostly related to inflammation and the plaque caused by that inflammation. Your pancreatitis is inflammation. Over and over, colitis, it's inflammation. The guts, IPS it's inflammation. Come on people.

Angela: Just like when I said I got rid of my arthritis and everything else balanced out. That's what happens. It gets rid of things, you didn't even know. The Maltipoo, I told you about, that the tumor fell off in two weeks, also had Cushing's. She was great, she documented every single day. She said, "I'm no longer getting up in the middle of the night to let her out. Is it possible that it's getting rid of the Cushing's." I'm like, "Ah-huh." Of course, I can't go out there and say it cures Cushing's.

Neal: We have to be careful about what we say on labels because of course every animal and every person is an individual and it doesn't mean that it's going to work them or that you're going to find the correct dose or be able to afford the correct dose for what you need to do or know how to use it or how to apply it. Having resources that you can go to, to give you ideas to try these things. Ultimately, that's what we're looking to do with these, is the whole video series we're doing our whole idea is more matter of it's a gateway to information for people to go and find out more.

Angela: Exactly.

Neal: With your products, you're sold in how many states at this point? Through the mail you're probably sold through all of the states.

Angela: Yes, I think we're in most. I don't know, I don't keep track of that. [laughs]

Neal: Good for you. That's awesome, congratulations.

Angela: Of course, sales help pay the bills and keep the rescue farm going, which is wonderful. It allows us to do what we're doing. We've just established this wonderful partnership with Glacier Peak Holistics and Adored Beast Apothecary. It's helping because we all make products that help each other and help these problems and they're all-natural so it's perfect and we're all badass women.

Neal: [unintelligible 00:37:20] she’s awesome.

Angela: I've been such a fan of hers and know her product and sold her product in my shop. When people are like, "I don't know how to sell these things?" I’m like, “I have a little baby shop in the middle of nowhere and I sell $2,000 worth of CBD products and Adored Beast products, every single week because people see a difference.” They're getting rid of the prescription meds. Let's go back to the inflammation, they go back to their vet or their doctor whether human or animal and say, "I'm experiencing joint pain or pain," or whatever. They're given a synthetic drug, that then when it's a senior dog, what's it's doing to that dog's liver and kidneys.

It's not feeling any pain but look what else you're doing to it. Then just like cancer in humans, they don't die of the cancer. They die of something else because their immune system has just been suppressed and battered and has no idea how to operate anymore. When people go, "Well, do I take them off of prescription pain?" Yes, you do especially with a senior dog.

Neal: It's interesting, we consider it, for instance, Metacam an end-of-life product, not a just use it everyday. If you have to do liver enzymes on a regular basis because of a painkiller, switch your painkiller. It doesn't make sense to me.

Angela: Then when people are talking about-- The biggest thing, we get is, "Will my dog get high?" What do you think your dog is when it's on these prescription painkillers.

Neal: You think Gabapentin doesn't get your dog-- [chuckles]

Angela: It's killing your dog. One of the things that used to make me so angry at my shop and I actually used CBD in my shop way before it was legal. It's because I would have people come in-- We're the groom shop that takes the bad dogs. The biting dogs, the whatever dogs but we also get the people that come in and have given them some human drug to calm them down like a Valium or--

Neal: Oh gosh.

Angela: The dog is totally-- Can't even stand up. Then when it starts to wear off, it's now-- Doesn't know where it is and angry. I'm like, "We no longer allow that, if you would like I can give them CBD oil." Then they get their dog back and the dog's not crazy. The groom is perfect and they're still calm and the person can now see it work and then they turn around and buy it or they have some sort of rash and put it on. Even that night, the look and the rash that has been there for whatever already looks like it's going away. [crosstalk]

Neal: Yes. How about the CBD tropical spray? It would be awesome by the way. It's a product, the CBD topical spray for hotspots and stuff. There's a niche that's missing. We don't see any of those products, but I suspect over the next two years we're going to see a tremendous amount of these types of products in Canada. They're already in places like California, Washington, and Colorado.

Angela: See, we have a salve, which aggregated pure-- Because I have a groom shop, I could see everything that came in. Remember I get to see dogs that barely see their vets. They come to see me at least, maybe if I'm lucky, once a year or sometimes twice a year. Then those that really have to do a groom more often. I see everything, the most disgusting, the worst. I think about the people who are not coming to a grooming shop. I can't even imagine.

I have literally made all of my tinctures and my salvesto match what I was seeing. I do have a hot spot salve. Not only do I have a hot spot salve, this salve is also in its ingredients where we always see the most are matted dogs, severely matted dogs that we have no choice but to shave them.

Of course, their skin is going to be completely irritated, we literally my salve put it on that all the bumps go away, all the irritation goes away and the groomer can continue to shave the dog and we don't turn over a pink, irritated, itchy dog.

We now have a dog that we can basically reboot and start over, but we know we're going to see the dog next year in the same damn condition because that's just what happens. There are those things and there's also natural things in our kitchen cabinets that we can use to get rid of hotspots. I use Apple cider vinegar, vinegar hydrogen peroxide in my shop on the daily basis. People were like, "What did you do? What is this Product?" Then I write down that and go, "It's in your house. Here you go."

Neal: ACB is well underutilized, we use it in foods as well as a nice digestive aid. Let's quickly talk about-- The example I want to use is an average 50-pound dog, that'd be a medium-sized animal. Let's say a 500 milligrams CBD. Do you have a product of that? How much of that product, if I was giving it to the dog and I wanted to ... I don't have a lot of medical guidance here because here in British Columbia, the BCVMA has a hands-off approach to CBD.

I don't believe your vets actually even allowed to bring it up, but if you bring it up, they may be pro or against because it's so new. Most of them are going to be against it and tell you to use one of their pain relievers that they're more familiar with. Usually, we're walking around in the dark here and so I have a dog who's got some arthritic pain and he's 50 pounds and I have a 500-milligram bottle of CBD. How do I do that? How do I appropriately dose that dog?

Angela: What I like to think, we have talked about this because it's the most asked question. The problem is that in the industry we all felt we needed to tell the consumer something because they all want to know. But what we need to release first is the fear. You could pour the entire bottle down your dog's throat. It may have some diarrhea, maybe throw up, it's not going to hurt your dog.

Neal: Yes, because the oil though more than the CBD.

Angela: Exactly. It's going to be probably the MCT oil or the hemp seed oil that's in it that may cause diarrhea. But then again, it's not even something that's bad. We need to release the fear. On the other side of that is what would make us so upset is people with a low dose product. If you are dealing with a dog with a disease or a lot of pain, then they need more. Keep those two things in mind. Now, understand that every single dog is different. It has nothing to do with the weight of the dog.

Neal: Agreed.

Angela: Breed makes a difference, how old they are, how many deficiencies they have, how sick they are. If you're talking about inflammation, then we suggest and we do it by per dropper or per serving instead of-- so if your whole entire 500-milligram bottle is probably going to be about six, seven milligrams per dropper, ours is a 550 milligrams. A full spectrum is 12 milligrams DD is nine milligrams. We say anywhere between nine milligrams per day on up.

My miniature schnauzer, I started and I created the ease tincture for him, which is full-spectrum, turmeric, frankincense, essential oil and MCT oil and hemp seed oil. When I started giving that to him, you also have to remember if you have a dog that has many deficiencies, it's going to start plugging in those holes. Let's say it's a very old sick dog that has a bunch of problems. That dog is going to need a lot more than a dog that's just healthy and aging.

Neal: Yes. Demeanor and nervousness and all those things affect the dosage.

Angela: It's going to treat all of those things, but if they're going to have two different doses because one needs a lot more. What's great is that in the beginning, you may have to give a lot more until they start getting balanced, then you don't have to give them anymore because they'll be coming back more balanced.

Neal: Right. We also say with anxiety, when we're giving it for anxiety, we also want to use those calm periods to do some of the behavioral modification techniques because it's through those calm periods and doing-- Let's say your dog becomes anxious every time you leave the house because he doesn't like to be left alone. Get him nice and calm using some CBD and then go get your keys. And just do that-

Angela: Do you hear that, Hernando? We have a new rescue right now who is-

Neal: Okay. Then go and get the keys and do the triggers. Do the thing, put on your shoes and then go sit down with them and stay calm. Then do it like that.

Angela: Yes. We're even talking about, don't come at him like you're giving him medicine, "I can't get in my dog's mouth." I'm like, "Okay." I get it. I've had a very old senile, bit the glass dropper. I've had it all. I'm waiting for them to go to sleep and then I slipped it under their lip and gave them their full dose. By the time they're awake, they're just like, "What's going on?"

Neal: Yes, exactly.

Angela: When it comes to anxiety, you give your-- we started about five to nine milligrams. Give it to the dog, wait 20 minutes. If that dog isn't completely calm, give them another dose. Find nine-pound miniature schnauzer and my 60 pound Doberman, my nine-pound needs two full droppers and my Doberman needs a quarter of a dropper. She's immediately calm. My schnauzer, 20 minutes before he's calm.

Neal: The demeanor matters.

Angela: It makes no difference how much they weigh. You were not.

Neal: Well, a different-- They also learn by situational. You do it at home, but then when you go to moms, you're going to have to do it there too because it's a different place for the dog. He doesn't necessarily know he has to behave the same there as he does at home. Also when you're giving the medication, this goes for any medication, your demeanor matters. Your approach matters. If you're anxious and upset and worried, so will they be, they will mirror you. Whereas if you are calm and you are excited to offer it and it's a treat and rock and roll, let's do this, then they'll mirror you. Some people, we have to say, "Get out of the room."

Angela: All the time.

Neal: They don't like to hear that.

Angela: Right. Well, even my own damn dog, I take them to my groom shop. If I try to groom him, forget it. He comes by other groomers and he stands there perfectly like an angel. I'm like, "Argh." But Yes, it really is a practice because especially if your dog is anxious and you have to sit there and become-- a thunderstorm, I live in Tampa, Florida.

Neal: You should get a lot of fun. It's called a light-

Angela: The lightning capital of the world.

Neal: Right. I almost got struck by lightning there.

Angela: See, it's crazy. My dogs and it struck one time outside while we were outside four times in my yard. Everybody is petrified of the lightnings.

Neal: Your apple theme is the lightning, right?

Angela: Exactly. Giving a dog that is freaking out and you're freaking out. You've got to remain calm. That goes with everything. I immediately go get a treat bag, especially if I'm doing it with a new dog, because when I bend over, squirt it in their mouth and give them a treat right after, they have no idea what happened. We'll just start feeling really good. My Doberman though, this does happen with some dogs, she hears, she sees the black cloud. She hears it before.

I know whether a storm is coming because of her. She comes and sits down next to me like really tall and I'll be like, "Look out," and be like, "Yes." She asks for it. She loves her tincture. She knows this stuff calms me [unintelligible 00:50:13]. [laughs]

Neal: That's awesome. The interesting about that is they're really stoic animals. They don't generally tell us when things are wrong. When we've learned to communicate to them in such a way. Believe me, my dog is smarter than me. It knows a lot of English I don't any dog. When they come and they tell me they need something, and they're so stoic that they're asking then they clearly need this product. I'm no animal communicator, believe me, I too still talk to my dog every day. [laughs]

Angela: I know what my animals want. I told you, I have a farm, I have a rescue farm. I've used it on my pig, my chickens, my geese. Everybody has had it and there's nothing better than watching an animal come back to life. Because when they're in pain, they don't want to be alive. I'm talking about one of my ducks. They give up. We also got to remember cats show anxiety and stress. My autoimmune disease is caused by anxiety and stress. I caused my autoimmune disease so the same thing happens in animals. If they're stressed out or filled with anxiety, they're going to make themselves sick also.

Neal: Yes, same with heart disease. I think inflammation and even depression.

Angela: And cancer, I know.

Neal: We're probably around the time we need to be. What's next for the CBD industry or the pet health industry and cannabis products? What's next in that? Where do you see CBD Dog Health going in there?

Angela: We're going to continue to educate. I'm sure when it becomes federally legal it's going to be a crazy situation. I don't know what it'll be like, but it'll be nuts. We're going to see more of the pharmaceutical company taking isolates or synthetics and creating things. I'm sure we're going to see it eventually in the pet industry, we're going to see more isolation of the cannabinoids CBG, CDC. Oh my god, this cannabinoid is great for this but only when it's got all the others in there with them.

Neal: Some of them individually, because they love pigeonholes.

Angela: CBD isolates are already coming from China. It's already coming from China. The moment something like that hits then it's just going to be there. You should see the emails I get on a daily basis selling me broad-spectrum by the barrel, isolate constantly. I know everybody else is that. The other big thing that's happening is the white labeling. It's an unregulated industry so it is cowboys, Indians, people taking, putting things out there, making a quick buck, disappearing on the internet. Coming back as something else.

I like to say stay with the companies that are staying in their lane, that have been in the beginning that are four, five years old. That have someone behind it that saw really this opening in the industry and knew that pets needed it. Some of the terms like full-spectrum with no THC. That is what is broad spectrum is. You'll see big companies trying to use terminology and trainers like the pet food industry does. Where they put [crosstalk]

Neal: Your products also have a third party verifying no pesticides. Can you talk to me about that a bit?

Angela: That's the first thing you should always look at when you're looking at a product is that if it calls itself a full spectrum product that it actually is. You can go to their website and you should be able to find the product and third-party lab certificate that goes along with it. Which what that shows you is what's in and what's not in the product meaning no herbicides, no pesticides, nothing, chemical fertilizers, none of those things. No solvents, no butane, no ethanol, nothing else is in there and what it does have. Meaning CBD, CBG, CBC, that little bit of THC.

Neal: By a little bit, you're talking about less than 1%?

Angela: Isolates it's 0.3%. I don't know what it is there or what it'll end up being there. In California, we can get a one to one product for a pet here.

Neal: As I understand it, dogs often have to be acclimated to higher doses of THC. It's not that they're terrible for them, but you can give them a full-strength THC product.

Angela: We can, though he is going to be really high, super high. I've seen it and it's crazy. There's also something called static ataxia which sounds terrible, but it isn't. That is what the term called when the dog is high.

Neal: Basically they're acting like they're drunk.

Angela: A little bit. If you go-- where's the closest video? I have some great video of dogs who are experiencing static ataxia. I've had it happen three or four times now with geriatric dogs who get a full dose. Most people start small and go bigger, I start big and lower the dose just because of how I know how the medicine works. If I'm dealing with a really sick dog or a dog on death's door or dog on pain, I'm not going to tolerate it, I'm going to fix it.

It's usually a very geriatric dog with multiple problems and we give them a full dose. The first thing they have is zoomies. They feel so good they they are pupply-like running around. When they run around, you can tell they're a little bit, they're turns are a little off. When they stand straight and look at you, they go in a circle. None of this is life-threatening or scary, or bad, it is a million times better than what Opioid would do to them, just knocks them out. Has no harm to their kidney, to their liver, nothing.

They're perfectly healthy, they're just a little high, and they're feeling good. That's usually they take a really long nap. Then the next day, it's basically they're pretty much normal they're a puppy-like symptom stay. That's them feeling good. You know what it's like to wake up achy and [groans] when that pain goes away, you take your tincture and that pain goes away, I'm like [laughs] "I feel great." That's the same way they feel. It's funny when people get worried about, "I don't want to get my dog high. I don't want him to die from it."

It's the safest, most natural beautiful plant out there. If there is a God, he put this plant there and said, "It takes care of everything."

Neal: Well, it's been part of religious practice in humans and we can see that it's going back more than 5,000 years.

Angela: I read something where hemp alone in Africa, they would grow it when they got any rain and then when there was no rain, they said the chickens, everybody, the hemp seeds.

Neal: It's the most... plant protein on the planet.

Angela: Yes, it is. The best fiber, so again, why isn't everything made out of hemp fiber, which is an anti-microbe, anti-fungal, anti-everything. You get it wet, we have collars and leashes made shoes made out of it. They never stink, they never fall apart. Guess what, the cotton industry doesn't want them to come in here.

Neal: It was actually the fiber industry that made cannabis illegal in the first place. Yellow journalism is what it came out of. The whole, it's because the yellow papers that, what was it? Harry Anslinger and what was this the newspaper magnate, I can't remember his name.

Angela: Rockefeller? We know all these stuff.

Neal: [laughs] I am going back to when I was talking back in the day to Jack Herr about the history of cannabis. I want to say thank you. I think I can't wait until I can get your products in my store.

Angela: I can't wait either. I can't wait to come do educational session at your store.

Neal: I've never done one.

Angela: I would love to be the first.

Neal: [chuckles] Maybe we have to talk about that. Next time if you're in Seattle area I'm just a 90-minute ferry ride or a 20-minute boat.

Angela: That's so tempting.

Neal: We are on an island and it's a temperate rain forest that's why it's raining.

Angela: How different is it from Nova Scotia?

Neal: Substantially.

Angela: How?

Neal: I have a temperate rain forest, they get winter.

Angela: You don't?

Neal: I get about three weeks a year.

Angela: Wow. See you have options. That's crazy. Because we went to see Rodney and Julianne in Nova Scotia and I had never been there, and what a beautiful little place that was.

Neal: The West Coast to Canada's completely different scene. It's not only different culturally, it's such a damn big country, sea to sea. We have three seas that we border. You could go from here to Alberta and it's a different culture. Go from Alberta to the north and it's a different culture. Go to the Yukon to Nunavut and it's a different culture. That's not a word of a lie. We all are embraced under this federal thing that is tenuous but it seems to work really well for us. I'm happy to be here. I think [crosstalk]

Angela: I can't wait to visit.

Neal: Come visit. You'll love it. We'll do dinner and we'll have a great time. If we can swing an educational thing, I have no idea how I'll do it in my little store but I'm happy to try.

Angela: On this educational tour we have an RV.

Neal: Yes. [laughs]

Angela: You don't have space in your store, we're popping up  and we'll be in your parking lot if [crosstalk]

Neal: That's awesome. I have a place we can park the RV. I lived in one in my driveway for months.

Angela: Perfect. I love it. If I was at home my setup faces my backyard [laughs]. My farm. I love looking at your window.

Neal: Yes. We're just outside of Victoria. We're lucky enough to have some forest. Thank you very much. I really appreciate.

Angela: It was nice meeting you in the end at least face to face.

Neal: Angela we met in Vegas.

Angela: Oh no, I met you. I met you. It was in Vegas. That's right.

Neal: At the Two Crazy Cat Ladies.

Angela: But we didn't get to talk like this.

Neal: Not much. No. Not much at all.

Angela: Are you going to go this year?

Neal: I try to do it at least every two years. I'm hoping to make it this year.

Angela: We only want to go because of that party.

Neal: Yes. [laughs]

Angela: I feel like we need to make our own little event because I cannot stand Superzoo anymore. I feel like we need to make our own little event so that we can all spend the day together instead of just the..

Neal: For as long as they keep allowing the natural sector to show up, I'm going to consider to keep going. It's global, I won't go to anymore.